North Star Leaders Podcast

Lindsay Pedersen

The world needs what only your business can bring. And as a leader, it's your job to deliver. But where do you focus? Where do you direct your time, your team, your budget, and your emotional energy? We're learning this together on the North Star Leaders podcast. In this podcast, I talk to purpose-driven leaders about the choices that they make to create audacious economic value while also realizing their distinctive purpose. I'm Lindsay Pederson, brand strategist, author of Forging an Ironclad Brand, and host of the North Star Leaders podcast. Let's get to it. Today, I am really happy to be joined by Poppy McDonald. Poppy is president at USAFacts, the nonpartisan not-for-profit resource for civic issues. Poppy, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me, Lindsay. It’s so good to see you. To start us off, Poppy, what is your favorite thing about what you do?

Poppy MacDonald

My favorite thing is getting to have a positive impact on America, right? Like I want to contribute in a positive way to this country. And I think in my very winding career, the transparent through line has been that Americans should have access to information about what's happening in their country and how their elected leaders are serving them, how progress is being made or not. And it should be available and transparent and accessible. And I think that was true when I worked in government early in my career or when I worked in media or at the Gallup Poll. And it's still true today. Our mission is to empower Americans with facts. And we think it's really important that government data be accessible to the country who are the people who live here. And we want to help make that possible.

Lindsay Pedersen

I love that. The shareholders of our country, which is all of us. Maybe in a nutshell for listeners who don't know USAFacts, what is USAFacts?

Poppy MacDonald

We are a nonprofit, a nonpartisan civic initiative that's dedicated to making government data accessible to the public. And the reason we do that is we think debates in this country should start with agreement on the facts. And then we know there's going to be a healthy conversation about the way forward. But to begin that thoughtful discussion, it should start that we could all agree these are the facts of this country. And the way we make those facts accessible is by going to government data sources. I think it would surprise most people. There are over 90,000 government entities in the United States of America, and no standards about how that data is collected or reported to the public. And so, we go and do the hard work of bringing that data together, and not only ensuring that the data is available, but that it's understandable. And that looks like really helping answer Americans' questions by visualizing it, by explaining it, by ensuring it's available on the platforms that they go to, their trusted platforms. So certainly at usafacts.org, which is our website, but we're also on TikTok, and we're on Facebook, and we're on Instagram. And we have a newsletter that goes to over 250,000 Americans, so right to their inbox every week. And that's really the work we do to bring the data to the people who are making decisions, really important decisions about who we elect in this country, and decisions about, you know, where they send their kids to school or where they live, or what kind of health care they want access to. And we want to ensure that they have facts behind them, that they have data so that they can understand by the numbers, are they making good decisions for themselves and their families?

Lindsay Pedersen

I love that. And I love earlier the use of your word shareholders, because it's like we deserve, we, the quote-unquote customers, the shareholders, deserve to have access to this understanding so that we can make the most of being one of these shareholders, make the most of our lives. Do you use that terminology internally, like these are our users, these are the shareholders of the United States of America?

Poppy MacDonald

We do, and we think about it as the government has said that for shareholders of publicly traded companies, they deserve transparent access to the numbers of how that company is performing before they decide, do I want to continue to invest in this company? I think Steve Ballmer, who's our founder and funder, who used to be the CEO of Microsoft, and would produce what's called a 10k report, it's required by the SEC, and that's a government agency, the Securities and Exchange Commission, they require companies to make their data transparent to their shareholders, and the CEO and CFO have to sign and say, I agree, these numbers are correct about my company. He found it ironic the government requires that for shareholders of publicly traded companies, but the government isn't providing that themselves to the shareholders of this country, the people who live here, the taxpayers, like they should have that same transparent access to the facts, to the numbers. And so that's where we really step in and say, here is the government data, we don't do predictions, we don't do forecasts, we don't have opinions, we don't take sides or try to advocate for anything. We simply say, here is the data on what's happening in this country and put it into context and show it over time and allow people to make their own decisions about what they want to advocate for.

Lindsay Pedersen

It's interesting because in some ways, the word shareholders is clever. And another way, it's actually very literally true, right? Like if a third of our income or a large portion of our income goes to paying taxes, that's probably the biggest investment that we make numerically, that probably is our largest, we probably are a shareholder of the country more than we are of anything else in our lives, at least financially. So, there should be accountability, there should be transparency, we should know what's happening with our dollars.

Poppy MacDonald

Absolutely. And I think we are super empathetic to citizens right now, to people who live here in this country, why they are losing trust in every major institution, why they feel confused, they turn on two different news stations, and they're going to get completely different stories of what's happening in this country. They hear from the incumbent officeholder that everything's going really well, and from the person challenging them that everything's a mess. And they're all making a case for their own success and what's good for them, but they're not really helping Americans navigate by the numbers. Where do we stand? And it's a complicated picture. And so our job is hopefully to make it accessible and understandable. And our job is that we hope, right, turn from one media station or the next, you're hearing the same data, hear from the incumbent, hear from the challenger, you're hearing the same data. And then there can be a healthy discussion from there. But we think we could really build trust if we grounded conversations in those numbers and those facts.

Lindsay Pedersen

Like the ground truth is informing this discussion rather than like some fluffy thing pulled out of thin air for somebody else's incentive.

Poppy MacDonald

We also are empathetic to the people trying to provide these numbers, right? I worked in media; I know something about what it's like to work in government. There are small staffs, they are working at a frenetic pace and trying to cover every issue under the sun. And so, until government data is easy to access, until the facts can be found and discovered quickly, you can understand why you end up hearing a lot of adjectives, and a lot of descriptors, and a lot of qualitative interviews or comments. There aren't grounding in the facts. And so, part of what we do too, is try to ensure that that data is accessible to elected leaders, to people who are in media, to people at companies, right? We want to ensure that the data is being used across all constituencies and that hopefully Americans keep hearing information that's grounded in facts and facts first.

Lindsay Pedersen

I love that. As the leader of USAFacts, what do you think is the most helpful thing about having this North Star? We've kind of been talking about the USAFacts North Star of enabling, empowering with this data. What’s useful to you as the president, as the person running the organization of having that crystal clear guiding light?

Poppy MacDonald

Well, we have a big, mighty ambition, right? We want to get the data from these 90,000 government entities, make it all accessible and produce it in a way that answers Americans' questions by providing visuals and explanations and charts. And I have a team that is 50 people, right? So, I would say the biggest help of that North Star is to create alignment and focus of our promise, our commitment to the country. We said that we would gather this data, make it accessible and understandable. So that gives us good focus and alignment. I will say though, we're 50 people with a very large ambition. So, I'd say where we need further clarity is by thinking about who is the audience we want to reach. Because we literally could say yes to everything and anything if we think about empowering Americans with the facts. And so we have to be really clear about our audience. And we have to be really clear about like, what is it this year that we want to accomplish? And so, for example, this year at USAFacts, we decided it was really important to produce something for citizens before the election that they could use to have their questions answered on the hottest topics that we know Americans are considering as they decide who to vote for. And so we're looking at things like immigration, jobs and economy, healthcare, housing, and we are leveraging AI and a large language model to help answer those questions for people by not only giving them the, hey, here's what's happening for our country, but letting people share information that gets it more specific to their own experience. So, letting them look at it by where they live or letting them look at it by other demographics. And so that's really been our focus this year is launching that product in time for the election so that citizens have a resource for just the facts or the data as relevant as they want to where they live, so that they can make decisions about who should run this country.

Lindsay Pedersen

Yeah, on one hand, that North Star allows you to do more with less. This is a 50-person organization with a very audacious goal. So, the focus is a lever for getting the most out of your limited resources. And I also hear you saying that the North Star is kind of timeless and evergreen. So, another way to enable focus is to bring it down to like a timeline of, okay, this year, this is the goal. So, it kind of sits underneath. It’s more like the sun instead of the North Star, like it comes down. I don't know if that's true. I don't know if that's true, but it's closer to the earth. And so it's more specific to what's happening now. And so, it can govern really specific day-to-day, what are we putting out there in a way that the North Star can inform, but not directly guide to the extent that something more granular could. So North Star is super important and bringing it down closer is also of a lot of utility for particularly when you have limited resources and particularly when there's such a salient thing happening in the United States right now with the 2024 election. I’m in Washington, D.C. as a leader in media and polling and public affairs. Now you're in the Seattle area. Is there like a sensibility that's different in D.C. versus, say, Seattle in terms of having a North Star or having kind of this more timeless, evergreen, guiding light, like regional differences or differences between the media world and the high-tech world? Or is it like it's the same?

Poppy MacDonald

It's such a good question because in D.C., the workforce is largely centered around public service. And so when people are thinking about what company do I join, it's obviously going to be in public service. And then it's when you're trying to woo talent, come to my organization, right? It’s about which organization will give them the opportunity to have the most influence and impact. And in Seattle, people are, I would say, largely in the tech or the startup community. So I think there is at the core of that talent like, yeah, I'd love to have an impact, but I sort of thought that's what I'd have to do outside of my day job. They also, as part of being in the tech community or startup, like what they really care about too is like innovation and being able to build something that is new and important and being able to be at the forefront. And so, when I think about like how we attract people to come to USA Facts and bring their talent here, it can't be just about the public service like it would be in D.C. We also have to talk about you can build something really cool here. And you know what? We're a 50-person team. So, like if you go join a large tech company, you're going to be working on like one small component that somehow is going to roll up to this big thing that you had a teeny tiny part of and you didn't even see the big picture. USA Facts, like you're going to own that thing, right? Like we are 50 people. Like we come together in an all-hands meeting and talk about the direction we're going in and what's going well and what's not and who we're serving and how we serve them better. And when we say go build it, we're empowering someone who might be right out of school or a year out of school to go and own that thing. And you can have a real impact here, not only with your career and your ability to do something technically cool, you can have a real impact on the country. So, combine your passion for making this world a better place with being able to build something cool and technically innovative. And then we can, you know, attract talent. But it takes the two together. It is important that we really stand out in that way. And then we are able to attract some incredible talent who are not only capable of doing really innovative, cool things, but want to have a positive impact.

Lindsay Pedersen

I love it. And I will just speak for what I know about USA Facts. You have an incredible team. Your executive team is amazing. And I can see how the USA Facts mission is a recruiting gold mine and a retention gold mine, right? It's like an engagement goal. It attracts people, the right people, the people who are going to be happy and are going to contribute a lot. And it also keeps them excited about it in a way that you wouldn't without that. So past organizations that you've run, has there been a North Star that's as explicit as USA Facts is like at Gallup, for example? That is a great question.

Poppy MacDonald

Yeah, I mean, I think the North Star at Gallup was about gathering intelligence from people will make your company and your country stronger, right? So, it's like gathering the intelligence from the people. And so that was true in our polling work. And that was true with the employee engagement and customer engagement work that we did inside companies. And it also rallied people. And then, you know, Politico, it was about getting inside the room and sharing what was happening from inside the room with the public, like they deserved to have that same level of access, and we were going to get them the intelligence. So yeah, I mean, I think I've worked at places with some really exciting and important North Stars.

Lindsay Pedersen

Yeah. And like you said earlier, there's so clearly a through line around access to beneficial information empowering. And there's also kind of a flavor difference among those as well. I mean, with Politico, being in the room, kind of feeling like an insider is a different emotional benefit from gathering what you get when you have access to intelligence. And they're same but different. There's an angle that's really similar. And yet there's a difference in the audience. And there's a difference in the thing that that audience enjoys as a result of having chosen Politico or USA Facts or Gallup. All of these are either explicitly or implicitly journalistic organizations, polling, media, public affairs. And there's this mandate for journalistic neutrality for all of these. And yet, there's also kind of like a call from employees and sometimes from customers to have a point of view, like what is our stake in the ground. So, I'm curious how you balance that. Let’s just focus on USA Facts because its literally neutrality is so important to the North Star. So how do you maintain that while also either having a point of view or deciding not to have a point of view, but managing the parties that want you to have a point of view?

Poppy MacDonald

Yeah, great question. So, one thing we know is we say we want to, and we do want to empower Americans with the facts, and that means all Americans. And so, if we ever came across as biased or advocating for something specific, we would lose some part of the good chunk of the population. And so, we aren't really delivering on our mission that, hey, data should be accessible to all. If you're hearing from somebody from one political party or the other, they should be able to agree on the facts, but they're not going to agree on the facts if we are ever seen as partisan. So, holding that credibility, being invited into rooms, no matter what political party someone represents, is critical to USA Facts success of being able to deliver on our mission. And we have seen that. We worked with the Trump White House to provide COVID data. Then we worked with the Biden White House to transition that data and continue to work with the Biden White House. We are invited into a bipartisan Senate meeting that we just did in June that was co-hosted by Senator Mitt Romney, who's a Republican, and Senator Chuck Schumer, who's a Democrat. And they had a mixed group of Republicans and Democrats who came around the table, U.S. Senators. And we're just having a lively discussion and hearing the data presented. And we wouldn't get into that room if we didn't keep that nonpartisan standard. And that means that we only provide government data. We don't do forecasts or predictions because we think that's where judgment comes into play. And we don't advocate for anything, except there is one thing we do take a position on. And I think this is where we get a little bit of the flexibility. We do advocate that government data should be open, transparent, and accessible to the public. And so that is the one thing that we do feel comfortable advocating for is like, hey, Congress, if you want to make good decisions, which we know you do, ground them in data, and we need your help in making that data standardized and available and accessible, not only for USAFacts so that we can help distribute it to Americans in a way that answers their questions and makes it understandable, but also so it's accessible to you as lawmakers to understand how are your decisions playing out by the numbers? Is the policy working or not? Does change need to happen? And so that is the one thing that we do advocate for and take a position around.

Lindsay Pedersen

What I hear in there is, on the surface, you might say like from the standpoint of political parties or specific issues, there's no quote unquote, stake in the ground. But at a much deeper level, there is a stake in the ground. It transcends party. It transcends where on the political spectrum you stand. The stake in the ground is that people have the data to make the decisions. And that is a stake in the ground. It’s not that there's no stake in the ground. It's just that it doesn't look like what it might look like for Fox News or MSNBC. And that's the whole thing. That's the competitive advantage. That's what makes it so different and compelling.

Poppy MacDonald

Thank you. I agree.

Lindsay Pedersen

What are you most excited about with USAFacts right now? Like as we sit here in 2024, what's most exciting to you?

Poppy MacDonald

It is definitely this upcoming 2024 election. People are paying attention much earlier than they normally would. And we have such an opportunity to be a resource at USAFacts.org for just the facts, for factual data and information as people are trying to navigate their choices as they're listening to candidate debates and confused about where things actually stand. We can be that resource for understandable data and information that people can go to increase their understanding. And we are doing that in a few ways, making information accessible at our website, USAFacts.org, through our weekly newsletter that goes to 250,000 people every week. And we bring together the latest data. And then we have a couple special initiatives tied to the election. So, Steve Ballmer, our founder and funder, committed to recording six 15-minute episodes or videos explaining by the numbers what is happening on six core topics that we know are ripe for debate and discussion around the election. And so that's immigration, that's jobs and economy, that's how is our population changing, that is health care and housing. And so he's created these videos. They are going to air at the beginning of August and run through the election, so on nationally broadcasted on television. They're also going to be on YouTube, and they're also going to be available at USAFacts.org. So that's something we're really excited about. And then, you know, the other thing we're doing, as I mentioned, is we are building a product that will take each core topic and provide an understanding for Americans of like, hey, here, if you're thinking about immigration, or you're thinking about the health crisis in this country, like, what are some of the questions you should be asking? And here by the numbers is our answers to your questions. And hey, if you want to know more specifically what it looks like in the state where you live, or by a particular demographic, like you can dig into these numbers, and we'll get you understandable information, visuals, and answers.

Lindsay Pedersen

I love it. And for listeners who don't know USAFacts, I know, so I'll speak to it. These illustrations are so crisp and beautiful, sort of like the way that information and raw data can come to life in a way that just immediately hits your cerebellum, and you just get it. It's so refreshing and feels so good to see it illustrated in such an accessible way. Like, I love it. I love being able to consume it because I understand it so much more deeply when I have had the benefit not only of your finding the data, the raw data itself, but making it so beautiful to consume. And it is empowering. It really does make you feel like you understand better and can make more robust decisions because of that. Turning to you a little bit, Poppy, what's it like to be the leader of an organization like this? How would you characterize what it's like to be the president of USAFacts?

Poppy MacDonald

That's a great question. It's a lot of fun, and it's exciting, and it's always challenging. So, it's awesome to get out of bed every morning knowing I'm going to work somewhere that's really having a positive impact on this country, and with a mission that truly is just to make data about our government accessible and understandable to the American public. So that is pretty cool to get to live that mission. And then it's challenging, right? I mentioned there are 90,000 government entities, and we're 50 people, like, working as hard as we can every single day to say, how do we bring in more data that's relevant to the questions we're seeing being asked in search engines or the questions that we're seeing are surfacing on the social platforms that we're on every day? Or what are we seeing pop in the news? Or what do we know the issues Congress are going to be tackling? So how do we prioritize, with 50 people, the data we need to go retrieve to answer those questions? And then I would say it's interesting and exciting in that there are new technologies emerging, like AI, like large language models, right, that could actually help me rethink our strategy of it's not 50 people against 90,000 government sources. It's 50 people assisted by artificial intelligence that could make us more efficient and effective in how we do that. And I'll say, you know, it's amazing how fast everything moves. But right a year ago, I was just trying to tell my team, let's start using large language models. Let's get comfortable with it. Let's just dip our toe in the water. But like, this is coming, and it could really impact our work. And now it's not only like fully integrated into our work streams, but it's really helping us through kind of a co-intelligence model, but really helping take part of that work that can really be done by a machine off of our plate so that we can really maximize the incredible talent we have here and their human intelligence to do the most important work of like thinking through, you know, what questions do we answer? And how do we do it best? And how might we visualize it? So we've really have now, it's not really co-working, but maybe a co-intelligence model here, where it's like AI partnering with our really smart humans to think about how we deliver those answers to Americans most effectively and how we clean and organize our data so that we can compare, you know, if we're trying to look at the experience of women, right, or a certain other demographic, people in a certain age category, right, we can look across what's happening in housing and economy and healthcare, we can bring all of that together. And so, AI is really providing some exciting opportunities for us to scale what we do.

Lindsay Pedersen

It's such a thrilling time to be in technology. It's such a moment and you feel it like it is so in the zeitgeist. And there's so much discovery happening all the time. And I hear it just occurred to me as you were describing that, that yet another kind of through line is that you're trying with USAFacts, you're trying to do more with less. So, the North Star helps you do more with less, with 50 people, you can go after a really ambitious goal. And AI and you know, the large language models that you're bringing to bear, that also helps you do more with less like this really, really ambitious goal demands that you're looking for ways to focus and get the most from your limited resources, which is so neat. As a leader, what are you working on? Just as a person who's leading organizations, what's your growth edge right now?

Poppy MacDonald

I'd say AI and how we integrate AI is definitely the growth edge. And I think there's the one piece of how do we leverage AI to do our work more, better, faster is what the phrase Steve always uses. And then there's the second piece of it, which I would say that we're really trying to figure out and that is how will it change the way we ensure our facts and data and information are discovered. And I think we don't know a lot about how that's going to change, right? Right now, primarily, it is through search engine optimization through SEO, that our information is being discovered. So, people go into a search platform, they search for what they're looking for, and they get the most relevant and helpful links, and we optimize for that. How do we ensure that we're popping up there as a trusted, nonpartisan, factual organization that can answer their question? And as more people are turning to AI, and as patterns shift, where people might even just be looking for an answer, and there might not be a citation for where that answer came from, and how do we ensure people are still finding the facts? And so, I think we're really trying to think through that, is that because more people are getting our newsletter directly to their inbox? Is that because we figured out a way to ensure that the information that we have is really discoverable by AI? I'm not sure that we know how to do that yet. What does that look like? How might, you know, is it we're on more, you know, social media platforms?

Poppy MacDonald

Bigger, stronger way, you know, is that video? I don't think we know yet. So that's really, I'd say, an increased area of focus and complexity for my team as we don't have a revenue goal. So there's not a reason necessarily why people need to come to usafacts.org. We're super grateful to be funded by the generosity of Steve and Connie Balmer. We do, though, however, have an imperative, empower Americans with the facts. And that means making sure our information finds people who have questions who are confused, and we need to make sure we continue to show up in those places.

Lindsay Pedersen

Yes. It reminds me a little bit, somebody, I don't know who it was, who compared really big inflection points in culture to brought up the idea of the Flintstones. When you watch the Flintstones and contrasting the Flintstones with the Jetsons, the Jetsons is the future, but it's kind of like not really how the future actually was. It was like people are coming down like spaceships, and it's very kind of rooted in the imagery of that day. But what the future actually looked like was the internet and mass air travel and all of these things that just didn't occur to them then. And we're sort of there now where we actually don't know. We're using the language of today to describe something we don't know yet. And so, it's daunting and exciting and kind of humbling all at once.

Poppy MacDonald

Yes. And I still, Lindsay, want to believe that that Jetsons conveyor belt that I can just stand on and it will do my hair, do my makeup and dress me in two minutes. That would change my life. So I'm still believing in the future.

Lindsay Pedersen

Why isn't that here? Why out of all of the inventions that have happened since that was created, why has that not happened? I completely agree. Speaking of that, speaking of getting ready in the morning, what do you do to get yourself in the game for the week? What are the rituals or self-care activities that allow you to bring your best game to this really difficult job that you have?

Poppy MacDonald

I think I need some better rituals but let me try. I don't know this is the right ritual for everyone, especially when I think about as a working mom, right? If I had had tiny little kids, this wouldn't even be possible, right? Like they were waking me up at the crack of dawn before I ever wanted to wake up and it was go, go, go, go, right? Maybe there was a nap. Now I have teenagers. So like, I have to wake them up at some point. And so it does allow for like a different way of working. And I don't know this is the way others would like to work, but I usually like to wake up like Saturday morning with coffee so that I can enjoy my weekend. I like to just knock out anything I didn't get done that week so that like, I can just be like, oh, okay. I handled everything I needed to. And it's usually like an hour. I just want to knock out like any emails I hadn't responded to or things I needed to be done. So I can be like, okay, now I can go really enjoy my weekend. And then I'd say, then I like to spend the weekend carving out the time for the things I don't get to do during the week. So taking like good, long walks with my dog and just having like quiet, peaceful time and enjoying beautiful views of the water around here as I'm out walking and exploring, getting some good quality something in with my kids and my husband. So like this last weekend, we did a two hour hike together and it's hard to pull like, you know, teenagers into one similar activity, but everybody was up for like a two hour hike. And then, you know, my husband and I went and tried like a new restaurant. So we did like a date night because I think you lose really lose time to like connect deeply with your spouse when everybody's running everywhere. And that just kind of I think fills the bucket. So then come Sunday night, I'm getting back on just to plan for like, hey, what's coming up this week? What do I need to be ready for? So I don't feel like I'm scrambling come Monday morning. That's what works for me.But it's always evolving. And I'm figuring it out as different parts of my life change and evolve.

Lindsay Pedersen

Totally. Yeah, different life stages allow for different rituals and schedules. And I really hear you on how fueling it is to have kind of a blank slate like to finish a bunch of stuff, have a power hour to just get through it all. So you have this sense of lightness going into your weekend. And also what you said is like just being really intentional about that time. So you don't just let the weekend happen to you. You're intentionally going out and engaging in these things that are revitalizing that require some conscious effort, especially with teenagers and hikes, at least in my life. Yes, I love this. What a wonderful conversation. Okay, I have some rapid fire questions for you. Before we finish. I've got five with kind of like one word answers approximately. Are you ready? What's a place that you've always wanted to travel?

Poppy MacDonald

Australia.

Lindsay Pedersen

What is your favorite word in another language?

Poppy MacDonald

Namaste.

Lindsay Pedersen

What time do you usually wake up in the morning?

Poppy MacDonald

Seven.

Lindsay Pedersen

What, if any, nicknames do you have?

Poppy MacDonald

With a name like Poppy, you don't necessarily need a nickname.

Lindsay Pedersen

Poppy's your nickname.

Poppy MacDonald

Pretty much. Although it is my real name.

Lindsay Pedersen

Yes. It's your real name and your nickname.

Poppy MacDonald

Yes.

Lindsay Pedersen

What a nice Venn diagram that you get to enjoy. Okay. And finally, I think I know the answer to this. Are you a dog person or a cat person or neither or both?

Poppy MacDonald

This could offend one of my animals, but I'm more of a dog person.

Lindsay Pedersen

Oh, you're concerned about your cat's feelings.

Poppy MacDonald

Yes.

Lindsay Pedersen

Okay. So you're both, but you might index a little bit higher on love for the dog. Okay.

Poppy MacDonald

Because the dog index is higher on love for me.

Lindsay Pedersen

Oh, I mean, that's, you're right. That's like, that would be shocking if that weren't true. Thank you so much, Poppy.This has been really wonderful. Where can people find out more about you or USA Facts online?

Poppy MacDonald

We're at usafacts.org and I'm available on most channels, but LinkedIn is probably the easiest way to find me, Poppy MacDonald.

Lindsay Pedersen

Awesome. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Poppy MacDonald

Thanks, Lindsay.

Lindsay Pedersen

Thanks for listening to this episode of North Star Leaders. Make sure you don't miss an episode by subscribing on your favorite podcast app. If you know of a North Star Leader whose insights would be valuable for this community, please message me on ironcladbrandstrategy.com.Also on that website are show notes, transcripts, and a way to sign up for our monthly newsletter.I hope you join us again for another episode of North Star Leaders.